Hi there, I won an enamel sign for Jameson Whisky a few days ago for $875, it was on eBay,  #200514837801, a couple of days later the seller sent me a notice to cancel as he made a mistake on the price and had a UK bidder offering him alot more.  I would have done so with reluctance only that I still wanted the sign.  The seller said he wanted to re-price the sign at $1899 and that he had been offered that price.  I asked would he accept €1250 as that I had originally won it and thankkfully he did.  Alot of extra money but what does one do in such a position?  Today, just now I received a further message from the seller saying now that he needs the extra and would I go the distance as the UK bidder is persisting!  The seller doesn't seem to have much of a WORD but what conscience does the other bidder have, maybe there is no other bidder at all but I suspect there is, if one was so desperate for the sign why didn't they bid on it when it was there for all to see.  If this other bidder can see this message could you please take a rain check on it, it's most underhanded and likely are the chances you will simply want to sell on just for profit which might possibly mean the sign coming my way in the long run anyway, the only one to seriously profit being the original seller who seems to have little scruples.

This really doesn't sound good to me - BUT - unlike "normal" dealing and Auctions very different rules apply to Ebay

I have spent a fortune on Ebay in the last 8 years and only encountered a few problems one of which was a vendor NOT wanting to sell to me (at any price) after the auction ended  - i complained to Ebay who (much to my surprise) said ;

"We are not an auction site - we are a LISTING site and therefore cannot compel anyone to actually sell the item, however if you have paid then we will co - operate with the Police if you have been defrauded " 

Translation : "We don't want to know "

I asked a Solicitor friend and he confirmed that normal Auction rules do NOT apply and despite it appearing to be an Auction - it actually isn't !

Consider contacting ebay and / or leaving him negative feedback if you were the winner

The seller sounds like a complete knob jockey!!!

If he wants to do a deal before the auction ends that's up to him, but once the auction has ended the deal is done, end of story.

I would tell him to stick it!!

Gordo

He's quite a well known Irish seller and should certainly know better, but I agree I certainly would'nt give even a penny more !!  Pay for it thru PAYPAL at your winning bid and see what happens. Your money will be safe, if he does'nt complete you get your money back and at least he will have ebay fees to pay

L'umo

Hey david signs thats a good one, funny huh! ur probly right too. Thanks all for all ur comments, it's great, my first time on here so a good experience. Lummox, that's a good idea re. the fees and of course a shame to lose 100% feedback too, I will deffo give that a shot if it doesn't work out, thanks again. BP.

Thank you all again for your various views, it's great to get a bit of support and some ideas to try and figure out what best to do, thank you also to Al for this great website.  I have since organised return of half monies that were already paid,  gone back to the original transaction, declined the cancellation offer and paid fully through paypal.  So.. it should be interesting to see what happens now.  If he doesn't follow through (and I suspect he won't) and if there ever was another post auction bidder it has made for some disruption but you should now be able to get your sign for very cheap. All best. BP.

More ........I've been thinking about Parians comments about it not being an ' auction ' strictly speaking in the terms of the law ! Does that matter ? The item had run its course yours was the highest offer at the end. As there are literally millions of items sold every day on ebay the expectation is that the seller sells to the highest offer and the buyer pays up. This happens in ' about ' 99.8% of items. SURELY then this becomes ' Common Practice ' . Alot of legal judgements are based on common practice (ie) the reasonable expectations of both parties. If he is not going to sell to the highest bidder why has he put it on there in the first place, plus hes sold to most / all of his other highest ' bidders '.  Still think its worth persuing, is he running as a business ? Try Trading Standards

L'umo

I think that Ebay describing themselves as a "Listings Site" is just a way of getting out of being involved in the transaction and the Law as it applies to auctions and the descriptions of items  -

 after all we've all seen some really  rubbish descriptions and even worse photos quite apart from the Repro  - usually described by the seller as "I'm no expert in this stuff................................" (apart from the other 200 repro items they've sold !

Fraud is a different matter of couse and they can't get out of"assisiting the Police" with that

 - but i haven't done too badly off Ebay and have seen a lot of stuff I wouldn't otherwise have done as most "Real Auctions" now don't do "General Sales" as they used to  and most of the "Antiques Shops" I visited 20 years ago have gone

I would just see if he sends the sign and if not get your money back and leave Neg feedback

Did anyone else notice that Chipping Norton Antiques centre has had a big fire ?

A few years ago an Australian seller had a WWII airplane listed with a reserve of about $150,000 US.  A buyer met the reserve price but the seller received a subsequent offer for much more money and refused to go through with the sale. The buyer took the seller to court and the judge deemed it a legally binding contract and ordered the seller to honour the transaction.

There are very few cases of sellers being taken to court in an attempt to have them honour their part of an Ebay transaction. It might have been worth it on a $150,000 transaction but in your case it would cost you more than the sign is worth. You would also have to find a lawyer willing to take on such a case and even then there is no guaranteed outcome. Due in part to a lack of previous case law the judge would have little to base his findings on and it might come down to the judges interpretation of an electronic agreement on an internet listing site.

I have even read that the seller could present the following argument. The seller put forth an intention to sell and you the buyer put forth an intention to buy. Now the seller needs to accept your offer. Since he never sent you an invoice and made it clear he had no intention of selling the item the chain is broken and the sale is void.

I think the bottom line here is that you can no more compel this buyer to sell than you as a buyer can be compelled to buy. Ebay will do absolutely nothing for you but they will collect their listing fees and final value fees from the seller because thankfully you did not agree to the sellers request to cancel the transaction. This will cost him a few pounds. Plus you get to give him a well deserved negative. I despise sellers like this. If you are a seller you have to accept the fact that once in a while you are going to lose money on a transaction and be comforted by the fact that you have more than made up for it on sales that made you a profit.

Anyhow, you will now have that money to spend on the next rare and wonderful item that comes along. It's like dating. Some brown eyed lovely breaks your heart and it seems like the world is a pit of pain. Fast forward a few weeks and some blue eyed lovely bat's her eyelashes at you and once again the world is all unicorns and rainbows.

Vlad

I am pretty much clueless about enamel signs so could someone please explain to me why this sign is worth so much?

It wouldn't be worth that much to me(or I suspect most enamel sign collectors)

Hmm !! I'd still go to trading standards and its free !! 

Great thread by the way.... pity its about a subject where you've been dumped on

L'umo